IRS negative camber problem

[David Head]

For David O
David, If I remember right, In order to fix my Neg. Camber problem on my IRS buggy, I need to replace the Torsion bars or have them straitened.
If I understand correctly. adjusting them will only increase the ride height but the camber problem will remain the same.
Am I right????????????

I think the torsion bars are 24 11/16

[MURZ]

David, replacing the torsion bushings should correct the problem. I would use good German rubber...

If it still has the problem after that the arms can be coaxed back into submission with a 10 ft piece of 2 inch pipe .... Seriously ask yellermanx...his buggy just went through this surgery

[David O']

If the inner bushings are old, it can cause the arms to set angled and make the wheels have the negative camber. However, most of the time it is the fact that the arms are bent into a negative camber situation. I would have an alignment shop look at the car and see if the arms need to be straighted.
The pipe trick will work, but it is hard to get the arms the same on each side.

[David Head]

It has been in Negative camber every since I built the buggy two years ago. I used new urethane bushing at that time. So I'm pretty sure that the Torsion bars have a permanant neg. bend. When I take them out will The bend be obvious to the naked eye?

[GregR]

I'm confused...not that there's anything unusual about that but....

Sounds like David H is talking about the torsion bars, I assume in the rear torsion housing.

Murzi and David O, are you guys talking about the same thing or the IRS trailing arm?
Enquiring minds want to know

here's a link to the yellermanx article on thesamba:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264127&highlight=chain

[David O']

The rear suspension arm can "take a set" if the car has seen a lot of hard driving, or has run real wide rear tires. It bends the rear arm.....not the torsion bars. The problem usually is the arm, (at the wheel bearing housing) has become tweaked and lets the axle set at an upward angle. Believe me, I've seen this one before. Another solution is to find arms that ae not bent, and replace the arms.

[Texasbuggys]

I too have seen this many times. It does not take much of a bump with big tires or even stock ones when they were on the original VW or now the buggy to tweak the arms enough to throw them out of whack. I woud try to replace the arm if you have some spares.

[David Head]

Yea, I've got a super beetle setting out behind the barn. I could probably use those trailing arms. I might try to do the 10' pipe thing first. Nothing to lose but my knuckles.
Thanks, David

[Buggy1]

I have always had touble with the set of the rear wheels on IRS, thats one of the reasons I keep staying swind axle.

Just a thought David, why not have a rear set of arms reinforced before putting them on? Since your close to Neil Decker, have him put some gussets the length of the arms to beef them up.

Neal

[Tom Kathleen]

Another "trick" that supposedly works on IRS arms is to flip them side to side. Of course this requires moving the shock mount & bump stops. We are trying this on Kathleen's Manxter this year. I will let you know how it works.

When my buggy was built, it was a swing axle pan that was convered to IRS. When the pivot points were installed, my guy rasied them @ 1/2". My car sits low with no negative camber. There is more than one way to "skin a cat". Tom

[Texasbuggys]

Hey Tom, it does work when going really low. I have done it on mine. Really easy and straight forward swap.

[Tom Kathleen]

We don't have the Manxter back together enough to know how well it will work. We are still in the middle of the Subaru engine conversion. Tom

[Texasbuggys]

Hey we sure hope to see you guys make some of the Texas shows this year! It is always a pleasure visiting with both of ya! The new powerplant is going to lots of fun!!! Save me a ride!!!

[Tom Kathleen]

If this were a normal year, meaning not having to practicaly totally rebuild the car, we would have considered going to your show 1st and then going to Mid America the next weekend. But, we will be lucky to get the car done by then and would want to put some "time" on it to make sure everything is OK. Maybe some time in the future. We had lots of fun with you guys.

If Kathleen's car is not done in time, we will probably be trailering my car to Mid America. Tom

[David Head]

Switch arms side-to-side????? I don't understand.

[Tom Kathleen]

Supposedly there is some negative camber built into the arms between the forward mounting points & spring plate/bearing area. That is why some people want to bend them. By flipping them from one side of the car to the other, you can reduce the amount of negative camber. But, like I stated before, you must relocate the shock mounts & bump stops so they can work the same way as before the switch. Tom

[David O']

Sorry, guys, but it apears to me that some of this is the "hard" way to fix things. I still say that a good alignment shop or body and collision shop can get the arms to be the angle that they need to be, with little to no work on your part, and the guages and the tools to do the job right.
But, with some of the ideas floating around "out there", I guess most don't understand the technical and engineering priciples, required to get the suspension to work the way it is supposed to, and keep the safety factor in place.
Kind of reminds me of this kid who pulled all of the wriring loom out of his car, because it was bad, worked three months to get it all back together, just to find out that the bulb holder for the left front turn signal was STILL corroded, and the bulb would still not work.
Not judging, just my humble opinion.

[Tom Kathleen]

David - I think you are missing something. Yes you can get the car aligned when it is near stock height, but when you lower it, the negaive camber kicks in and we need ways to reduce it and keep the car lowered for the street rod look. Kathleen's Manxter is lowered one notch on the torsion bar plus a few screws on the adjustable spring plate which probably is at least another 1/2 notch. The wheels & tires are also wider which have more leverage on the suspension. It had excessive (visualy) negative camber and the inside edges of the rear tires were wearing. We are just trying to compehsate for that and keep low. Tom

[David O']

They can measure the angle and compensate for that. I know that I have seen it done. Just trying to help.