Texas Manx Club

by **matter396** » 31 Fri Jul, 2009 6:41 pm

Hey guys still haven't decided on the wiring harness to use. Hoping to get some more opinions. If you have used one and love it.....or hated it, please let me know. I am hoping to order it soon.

by **Don** » 31 Fri Jul, 2009 8:34 pm

I bought a bunch of different colors of wire and made my own harness. If I had it to do over again I would do the same.

by **Aquabuggy** » 31 Fri Jul, 2009 9:35 pm

I used the bag-o-wires "buggy harness" http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/1818/AC971000/ that's advertised by all the buggy parts retailers with good results so far but I think this one looks good for the $$ and will probably try it in the next built.
http://www.dunebuggy.com/shop/index.mp? ... o=FEATURED

by **jspbtown** » 31 Fri Jul, 2009 9:48 pm

I too have used the dune buggy shop harness on two cars so far. I get mine off EBAY though.

I like the way it works. I add some relays for my personal application (wipers, headlights, horn and flashers). I also make one modification as when you are done with the basic wiring you generally have two constant hot circuits left over. The mod I do makes it one constant and one keyed.

You still need lots of wire for the grounds. I run the grounds to a terminal strip which I think makes chasing ground gremlins alot easier. You also need alot of wire for most of the circuits. For an example the headlight wire is only about 6" long.

I also use the terminal strips for headlights and blinkers.

by **Fred** » 04 Tue Aug, 2009 7:16 pm

That harness from Dunebuggys .com has my name all over it!! Do any of the club sponsors have that kit for that price? It's only $10.00 more than that basic kit and you get a fuse block with a blinker relay.

by **DannyT** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 6:59 am

jspbtown wrote:I too have used the dune buggy shop harness on two cars so far. I get mine off EBAY though.

I like the way it works. I add some relays for my personal application (wipers, headlights, horn and flashers). I also make one modification as when you are done with the basic wiring you generally have two constant hot circuits left over. The mod I do makes it one constant and one keyed.

You still need lots of wire for the grounds. I run the grounds to a terminal strip which I think makes chasing ground gremlins alot easier. You also need alot of wire for most of the circuits. For an example the headlight wire is only about 6" long.

I also use the terminal strips for headlights and blinkers.

Ok, help me out here. The left terminal strip......switched hot? The right terminal strip.......bulk grounds? What have you got connected to the three relays and what is routed directly to the fuse box. I really like this layout and would like to use it as a guide if possible.

by **jspbtown** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 9:38 am

OK...lets see what I can remember.

On this fuse panel 4 circuits are constant hot and 4 are switched.

Regarding the terminal strip on the right. It is all grounds.

The terminal strip on the left: If you look closely you will see some connectors on the bottom. The first 2 screws are connected, the second 2 are connected, and the last 4 are connected. The last 4 are my headlight circuit. I take the large headlight wire from the fuseblock and bring it to a relay(30 tab). From the relay (87 tab) it goes to the terminal strip. I now have 8 screws (4 upper and 4 lower) that are hot when I hit the lights. From those screws I run wires to my front marker lights, my headlight dimmer switch, my rear lights, my license plate light, and my dash lights.

The two sets of 2 screws that are connected together are for my blinkers. I run the wire that is hooked up to the flasher to my turn signal switch. Then the wire for the left signals to one set of 4 screws (2 upper & 2 lower) and my wire from the switch for the right blinkers to the other set of 4. From there I run my front turns, my rear turns, and I tap a wire for my signal indicators. I also run a wire from each set to a relay (more about that later).

For the relays: The relay on the block is used for the horn. In the picture you can see a black wire coming from behind the fuse block mounted relay. Normally that is attached to a steel firewall and provides the negative for the relay coil. Instead of drawing the negative from the steel firewall, I use the negative signal from my horn button to activate the relay. So you take the positive signal from the relay (87 tab), run it to the horn, and then ground the horn. You tap a neighboring fuse (in the back of the panel...real easy) to supply power for the relay coil, and then the horn button activates it through that little grounding wire thats already on the panel.

Another relay is for the headlights as described above. With this set up you only have all the lights on or all the lights off. There is no option of running the parking lights seperate. It can be done, but requires a different switch other than the simple toggle I like to use.

Another relay if for the wipers. I bring power from the wiper fuse to the 30 tab on the relay. I ground the 85 tab, bring power from my switch to the 86 tab, bring power to the low speed tab on the wiper motor from the 87 tab, and run a wire from the 87a tab on the relay to the auto park on the wiper motor. With this set up you only have one speed, it will auto park, and I get to use a simple toggle switch which I like because you can use the same style switch for everything.

The last relay is for the flashers. I again use the same style toggle switch. Instead of a SPDT relay I use a DPST relay. The "dual pole" allows you to keep the turn signal circuits separate. For wiring I bring power to the relay (86 tab)via the switch, ground the coil (85 tab), and for the power (30 tab) I tap into the existing flasher (although you can add a separate flasher if you wish) and run a wire from the two output tabs on the relay to the two blinker circuits on the terminal switch. So when you flip the toggle, the relay coil energizes which makes the connection between the flasher and the 4 blinkers. When you deactivate the relay coil the connection between the wires connecting the 4 signals is broken and they can again operate independently.

I know it seems really complicated but I have walked several people through it and it has worked well. When you get started feel free to ask about anything and I can post a detailed description.

by **matter396** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 1:59 pm

Thanks that description is wonderful, and takes away some of the fear of wiring this thing myself. I am sure I will have questions though.

by **jspbtown** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 2:09 pm

Mike,
As requested:

The key is simply used as an "on/off" switch.
Pushbutton start button
First toggle is for headlight on/off
Second toggle is for wiper on/off
Hazard switch is on my titl column.

Let me know if there is anything else.

Jeff

by **matter396** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 2:23 pm

wow that was fast!!!!!!

by **jspbtown** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 2:25 pm

Slow day at work....

by **matter396** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 2:27 pm

love the layout that looks super clean and nice....might have to steal a few ideas. thanks again!!

by **DannyT** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 4:40 pm

This will be a great help. Thanks for posting it. Expect questions when I start running wires.

by **CoryN** » 05 Wed Aug, 2009 5:12 pm

by **CoryN** » 08 Sat Aug, 2009 4:41 pm

Jeff

are the two terminal strips the ones from radio shack? They look like it but wanted to confirm

by **jspbtown** » 09 Sun Aug, 2009 3:43 pm

Yup...from radio shack, as are the little jumper strips.

by **CoryN** » 09 Sun Aug, 2009 4:23 pm

Cool that's what I got. I was just a little nervous they seemed a little lightweight

by **jspbtown** » 09 Sun Aug, 2009 8:23 pm

More than enough. Its really one of those things that can be over analyzed.

Sure, current cars are a nightmare with electronics, but these buggies are real simple circuits. Nothing complex at all. You will need some special fork connectors. They make two styles....the larger standard ones, and the thinner ones. The standard ones won't fit in the slots.

I was also thinking of using one of these in my current project for the grounds:

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/T ... S_BAR.html

It might take some fatter ground supply wires. I never had a problem with what I used before....just thinking if this is worth trying.

by **CoryN** » 09 Sun Aug, 2009 9:54 pm

So did you run the jumper strips down both sides of the ground terminal strip then? The 16 gauge round connectors fit if I can get them on the 14 gauge wire

by **Jack Duncan** » 09 Sun Aug, 2009 11:13 pm

CoryN wrote:Cool that's what I got. I was just a little nervous they seemed a little lightweight

Cory, if you think they are a little small, look at the ones from Home Depot. I bought the ones from Radio Shack, but changed to the Home Depot ones that were just a little larger.

by **CoryN** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 7:50 am

Yes - I've been looking at the Home Depot ones as well, but liked the jumper strips on the ones at The (radio) Shack, I guess I could roll my own for the HD ones.

by **jspbtown** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 8:26 am

Yeah, I did run them on both sides. I may have used the larger fork connectors (yellow) and ground down the width. Even if you don't, it will work just fine. I never had a ground problem....ever.

by **CoryN** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 8:46 am

Ok then last question. What did you ground your terminal strip out to? I was thinking of running a wire from negative battery to the screw hole on the top of the rear shock tower. Then also running a wire from the top of the shock tower up to the front to the terminal strip.

What gauge wire to do that, and how did you feed the power to the fusebox?

by **jspbtown** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 8:59 am

No problems with the questions Cory. Its no bother at all.

I "believe" (its been a while) I ran them from directly on the battery or where the battery ground cable attached to the motor/tranny. If I did it from the battery my thinking would be that would be a spot where it would be minimally exposed to corrosive stuff. I don't see a reason to pull it from two different locations.

On my wiring I used the wiring that came with the kit. One wire supplied 1/2 the box with constant on power and I pulled it off the starter lug where the positive battery cabl;e attaches. The other 1/2 of the box was supplied by the ignition switch ("keyed" power). If I had to guess I would say 12 or 10 guage.

by **Jack Duncan** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 9:47 am

Cory, you can't have too many grounds. Again, Home Depot has #4 stranded copper wire. I ran it from the battery to chassis, then from that connection to the front for grounding to terminal connections.

by **CoryN** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 10:09 am

Jack- your buggy is where I got that idea. Routing the wires and the basic curcuits all make sense to me. It's the relays and the flashers that I'm struggling to get my head around

by **jspbtown** » 10 Mon Aug, 2009 1:05 pm

Cory,

Flashers are easy. With a simple 3 wire turn signal (signal coming in wire, right wire, left wire) all you do is bring power to the flasher. Out of flasher to the wire that brings the power into the switch, then right and left wires to your terminal blocks for your signals.

For relays...nice reading here:

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp

by **CoryN** » 24 Mon Aug, 2009 8:31 pm

Jeff- got myself confused here. Working on lights. Got my relay. Power comes in to 30 85 is ground 87 goes to load (terminal bar) and 86 goes to the switch. I've got led lit switches. Switch has 3 terminals 1 is power 2 is load and 3 is ground. So ground is easy and I assume 2 comes from relay what do I put to 1? Another hot from where?

Question make any sense?

by **MURZ** » 24 Mon Aug, 2009 8:51 pm

The switch needs a ground, 1 gets power from fuse box, 2 goes to 86 terminal on relay, load ( to lights, wipers, etc) comes out of terminal 87 on relay.

by **CoryN** » 24 Mon Aug, 2009 9:12 pm

Cool so I run another hot from fusebox. That's what I was thinking. Thanks

by **MURZ** » 24 Mon Aug, 2009 9:27 pm

how is coming so far?

by **CoryN** » 24 Mon Aug, 2009 10:05 pm

Switches and relays left. Going well but sure is time consuming

by **jspbtown** » 25 Tue Aug, 2009 8:24 am

Cory,

I ran one line to run the relays for all the switches.

Basically power from fuse block to power on the switch, then a jumper to the next, then a jumper to the next (and so on for every switch), then load out to relay, and your ground (again jumpered from switch to switch, then terminal strip).

As an example, I would run my headlight power right from the fuse block to the 30 tab on the relay. And then 1 new line for all the switches to activate the relays. The power to activate a relay is really so very minimal.

by **CoryN** » 25 Tue Aug, 2009 12:00 pm

Good idea, that would be easy to do.

I still may ask one more time with the dual pole relay - mine has a little different lay out than the one you describe. I'll have to draw out the diagram for you.

Cory

by **CoryN** » 25 Tue Aug, 2009 8:36 pm

Ok - this is my dual pole relay. How do you recommend wiring this up to the flasher and the switch and lights for hazard lights?

by **jspbtown** » 25 Tue Aug, 2009 9:13 pm

7 & 8 are your relay coil. One is a ground (it doesn't matter) and one is a + from your flasher switch.

If you are using a separate flasher for your flashers then run a non-keyed power to your flasher tab. Then from the other flasher tab run two wires. One to the 5 and one to the 6 tab on the relay.

I am assuming you split the blinkers on your terminal strip. If so, run one wire from the 3 tab of the relay to the right blinker screws, and one from the 4 tab on the relay to the left blinker set of screws.

Working it through:

Power comes into the flasher. The flasher will only flash when there is a load on it. Since 1 & 2 are not connected to anything, and 3 & 4 have no current in them when the coil is not activated, there is no load. Since 3 & 4 are not connected to each other at rest, the normal blinkers work as they should.

When you flip the switch you activate the coil which brings 5 into contact with 3 and 6 into contact with 4. When that happens you now have a load on the flasher so power will go through the flasher, into the relay, and out to the left and right blinkers through tabs 3 & 4. Since the contacts are held together by the switch activating the coil, the flashers will continue to flash until the circuit is broken (and the load removed) by flipping the switch off.

by **CoryN** » 25 Tue Aug, 2009 9:36 pm

Thank you sir. You lay it out in a manner that makes it easy to follow for a area that is out of my expertise

Cory

by **CoryN** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 10:56 am

jspbtown wrote:Another relay if for the wipers. I bring power from the wiper fuse to the 30 tab on the relay. I ground the 85 tab, bring power from my switch to the 86 tab, bring power to the low speed tab on the wiper motor from the 87 tab, and run a wire from the 87a tab on the relay to the auto park on the wiper motor. With this set up you only have one speed, it will auto park, and I get to use a simple toggle switch which I like because you can use the same style switch for everything.

87a tab? Did you run two wires off of the 87 tab? Or is this some different relay with two 87 tabs?

Thanks

Cory

by **jspbtown** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 11:24 am

I used a standard Bosch style relay. Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-DC-30A-40A-Rela ... 286.c0.m14

If you look at the illustration on the relay you will see that the 87a tab makes a circuit when the coil is NOT energized. When the coil is energized the circuit is through the 87 tab.

So...on the VW wiper system you have 4 basic contact points. Ground, low speed, high speed, & auto park.

1. Ground is easy enough. Sometimes this is through the body of the wiper, and sometimes its a tab. Murzi's diagram shows it well...or I have it somewhere if you need it. Let me know.

2. Low speed power comes from the 87 tab on the relay. When the coil is energized power flows through the 30 tab to the 87 tab and the wiper works at slow speed.

3. High speed....I don't hook it up. If your driving and need a high speed wiper then you shouldn't be driving! Most inspection laws just specify an operational wiper....not multiple speeds.

4. auto park....this is the fun stuff. Inside the wiper is a wheel that has a bump in it that disconnects the circuit as it rotates around. The disconnect happens right at the spot to auto park. It prevents it from going around and around.

So what happens is, when you flip your switch, power goes through the 30 tab to the 87 tab. The 87a tab is now a broken circuit. Power is being fed to the low speed tab on the wiper through the 87 tab on the relay. When you shut the switch off you de-energize the 87 tab, but simultaneously you energize the 87a tab. This now takes over and powers the motor. The motor rotates until the wheel inside the motor disconnects the circuit at the right place to park the wipers. Even though 87a still has power going through it, the wiper does not turn because it is internally disconnected. The only time you can get them going again is to energize the 87 tab and have the motor run off the low speed circuit.

Make sense?

by **CoryN** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 11:59 am

I guess I am still being slow. I have essentially the same relay with the 4 tabs. But I'm not seeing an 87a on anything. I see the 87, 86, 85 and 30. But I'm not following on the 87a. I understand the principal but getting hung up on what you are referring to as 87a.

Thanks

by **jspbtown** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 12:25 pm

Some are 4 tabs some are 5 tabs. Here are some 5 tabs Bosch style relays (the ones on the top left).

http://cgi.ebay.com/7-refurbished-BOSCH ... 286.c0.m14.

I think I have a couple at home so if you want to PM me your address I will send you one.

by **CoryN** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 12:42 pm

Ok so it is a five tab relay. I'll try to find one locally. You have projects still you may need it for. Thanks

In fact I think I'll just use a standard relay for now and get good at timing the off so the wipers are in the right place.

Thanks again for all your help.

by **jspbtown** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 1:28 pm

Just run one extra wire for the 87a tab so if you do get the relay its a simple swap.

by **CoryN** » 26 Wed Aug, 2009 1:48 pm

I don't anticipate ever using the wipers, just need them to get past inspection.

I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel...

by **Fred** » 27 Thu Aug, 2009 8:45 pm

1st, thanks! This thread is solid gold. My question is about the brake light/turn signal wiring. How do you run the brake light wires to the back without all four corners lighting up when you apply the brake, I think the brake and turn are on the same filament. I'm going to use the Empi universal turn signal switch. It's probably a dumb question but it's got me stumped. Thanks Fred

by **CoryN** » 27 Thu Aug, 2009 9:52 pm

I can't help with that. My taillights have four wires each. One for lights one for turn signals one for brakes and a ground

by **jspbtown** » 28 Fri Aug, 2009 8:32 am

Brake light wiring is simple.

Power from the fuseblack to one of the two switches on your master cylinder. Murzi's diagram shows which tab is power in and which is power out. The power out to the left rear light, and then daisy chained to the right. Most buggies do not have the brake warning light wired into their system. Its really not needed. So, you use 1 M/C switch, and have the second in there as a back up. Its a simple two wire hook up. Power into the switch and power out to the brake lines.

Now, depending on your rear lights you can have some issues. most stock VW's have two lamps. One is a single filament bulb that is for your blinkers. The other is a dual filament bulb that is for your brake lights and parking lamp.

If you have dual bulbs then the wiring is pretty easy.

If you do not, and only have a single bulb with a dual filament, then you have some options. One is to add a second lamp of similiar design to fnction as a turn signal. The second is to get a trailer converter that are used on.....well...trailers.

These converters basically shut down the appropriate brake light and flash it as a blinker. They are not hard to wire at all. You can probably get them at your local trailer supply place or I can post a link.

by **CoryN** » 28 Fri Aug, 2009 8:21 pm

Ok I put a little power to it tonight. Hi beams, lo beams, taillights, Markers, dash, courtesy lights all work. Brake lights and starter too, but blinkers are not. Let me double check blinker wiring. I got x, - and L. I put power to x. Ground to - and L to the turn signal switch. Is that wrong?

by **jspbtown** » 28 Fri Aug, 2009 8:43 pm

No ground needed.

X is power in.

P goes to the dash indicator ( I wouldn't use it....go off your terminal strip to get a right and left signal)

- goes to the switch.

The two you use should be parallel with eachother with the one you don't use going in the opposite direction.

If that fails them go get a two prong flasher.

by **CoryN** » 28 Fri Aug, 2009 8:54 pm

I don't have a p. I got an x an L and a - I assume the L and the p are interchangable?

Texas Manx Club

Wiring Harness.....

Wiring Harness.....

Thanks

thanks

love the layout..

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