What is the true cost? NSW (not safe for wife)

[MURZ]

This morning I sat down and penciled in a budget for building a new car. I feel it is very realistic if you want to build a "Texas MANX Club Standards" Buggy. Please review and see what you think.

What got me thinking was being approached by some shriner guys to build them some buggy's. I told them that the cost would be between 10-15K. They ran

Now that I look at it, I think I might be better off buying a cherry donor beetle that runs and drives and cutting that up.

What does it cost? Really what does it cost? For those just starting and building a brand new car, this is a realistic spreadsheet. Please comment.


Donor 350
Brakes
Master cylinder 30
wheel cylinders 60
hoses 60
hardware 15
seals 7
bearings 20
cables 30
Hard lines 30
drums 250
Reservoir 10
switches 20
532

Suspension
adjusters 25
bushings 50
shocks 40
ball joints 60
tie rods 65
rag joint 10
caster shims 10
drop spindles 200
460
Chassis
Steel 100
e brake 30
shifter bushings 12
tranny mounts 30
cables 30
trailing arm bearings 60
paint 100
bolts 85
447

Tranny
seals 50
cv boots 20
70
Interior
Seats 450
carpet 100
gauges 250
shifter 25
steering wheel 125
Roll Cage 200
seat belts 125
1275

Electrical
switches 60
fuse box 45
wiring 100
misc terminals 40
heat shrink 30
wiper motor 50
headlights 50
taillights 50
battery and box 90
515

Body
Body 2000
Fuel tank 70
fuel fill 135
hose 15
clamps 5
fuel filter 5
fuel filter mount 12
windshield 180
steering column support 75
steering column 50
body gasket 15
wiper arms 25
wiper blades 13
2600

Engine
1600 dp rebuilt by me 900
carbs--used 40mm IDF's 450
exhaust 200
chrome 200
clutch 150
alternator 100
starter 100
2100

Wheels
rear 360
front 270
lugs 30
tires 400
1060

Misc
Paint 150
powdercoating 250
general misc 300
700

10109

[CoryN]

Sounds about right.

[CoryN]

I guess I didn't really comment, but I think you are pretty close on your estimate. I think you stand to get more parts off the donor than you anticipated, unless you plan on replacing everything with new anyway.

For example I'm using the donor shocks, even though they are old, I don't think this lightweight buggy needs more than that. My drums are fine, and depending on if I redrill them or run adapters, the cost will be about the same.

I think I'll start hemmoraging cash when I get to the wheels/tires and interior. Not really any way to save money there.

[Bill K]

I think Murzi is right on, but like Cory said, a good donor can sure help bring down the cost.
What Murzi is doing is dispelling the common myth that these are little $2,500 kit cars that you can build in a couple of weekends. But, we the baptized know better.

[Texasbuggys]

Murzi you are very close and right on with the turn key builds.

The idea of a good running and driving donor to get you started is a winner if you find a bargain with a running engine, tranny and beam setup for around $1000-$1500 you are way ahead already. And who cares if the body is dented, and rusty. The pans can even be rusty as long as the tunnel, tranny foks and frame head are all rust free and not bent out of shape then man you are on your way to building a $7000-$7500 buggy with your labor of course. Vey good start on a foot print of parts and add about $125 for misc bolts, nuts and other hardware. upholstery in there? Add mirrors to the list and cold refreshing beverages!
And a few hundred $ to offset the big purchases you make so ya can send the lovely wife to the mall or hair stylist.

Oh and I will give you a call this afternoon Murzi!!

[David Head]

I'm sure Murz is talking about the quality of buggy that he builds. Which, if I may say, is a top notch buggy. Cory, Of course you can spend as little or as much as you want. but to get the the Standards that Murz is talking about, it is gonna cost. Rick Lyons currently owns Murz's old buggy. Hopefully, you will see it in Salado.

I agree with you that a lot of the Expense is in Interior Seats and Tires and wheels.

David

[CoryN]

I'm sure Murz is talking about the quality of buggy that he builds. Which, if I may say, is a top notch buggy. Cory, Of course you can spend as little or as much as you want. but to get the the Standards that Murz is talking about, it is gonna cost. Rick Lyons currently owns Murz's old buggy. Hopefully, you will see it in Salado.

I agree with you that a lot of the Expense is in Interior Seats and Tires and wheels.

David

Geez - thanks for the encouragement, I might as well just give up now...didn't realize I had to meet Murzi's standards on my first buggy.

[GregR]

Cory,
man, we all have a dream. Murzi just made it the as one of the first.
have fun, we all do.

[Aquabuggy]

Ive got all the recipes for my builds, the first one Aqua came in at 8500.00 that was in 2003 the prices of most parts have doubled since then.
I haven't had the courage to add up all the receipts on the orange buggy or the still on going build of Shrek.

Its all the little cr@p that really ads up, I think your numbers are spot on!

[Bill K]

Hey Cory, there is only one standard this Club has: Love and Enjoy Dune Buggies. It's up to you to decide how you want to meet that standard. As you can see, we have a panorama of cars with varying styles, appearance, and cost.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Man I hope I can beat that estimate... for the sake of my bank account

[Rick Lyon]

Glad to see MURZI getting the bug again...That's a Good Sign for all of us...Knew it was just a matter of time...

I think you're smart, Chris, in not adding up the numbers...Build it like you want it, enjoy it and call it good when it's done...Numbers are just that, numbers...Yes, they're tangible, but from the quality I see with the TX Buggy's from/on this forum it's all about the ride, style and the uniqueness of the finished product. This group takes it to another level when building Buggy's...

Sorry David, can't make Salado...Have to work but I'll be thinking about you guys...Yall have fun out there...Be SAFE...

Who was that masked man, anyway..???

Ride On, MURZI...

Later...

Rick

[Texasbuggys]

Hey Murzi, sorry dude the phone died! I will catch up with ya this weekend and we can brain storm some more!!! Great talking to ya, boy our brains were a churning!

[Bill K]

Hey Rick
I'm sure agree with you that it is great to see Murzi starting to catch buggy fever again. Maybe since it's again infecting one of our Louisiana brothers, it will spread to another good Club member down that way named Tom Colello.
I know you and Pat are coming to the Roundup, but we're sure going to miss you at the Blast.
Maybe as a feature of the Roundup, we can have Murzi as a guest speaker on the fine art of buggy building.

[MURZ]

Well, post a topic and let the pot stir

Really, what I wanted to do is exactly what happened. Invoke thought.

My old car represented , for me, what "I" defined as the "street fighter" stance. I really had everything I wanted on the car, and did everything I wanted. But....now that I look back I gave the car away.

Chapter 2
Every time you guys get together I have to look at pictures of all the fine buggies you guys in TX put together. The stance, look, whatever you want to call it, coupled by the roar of that familiar air cooled engine just brings me back....yearning Add in the comradory that the club brings and there is no question what I want to do.

Chapter 3
Cory, and all you "new guys" that last thing I wanted to do is discourage you. By no means do you have to spend that kind of money on a build. It can be done for less...way less. The price will be in labor. Less money....more time reconditioning. More money....less time reconditioning. At some point though, you will become bonded to your car,and "feel" it deserves the best. You deserve the best, because you will have spent many, many weekends, building, by hand and hard labor..your dream. Once you cross this threshold, the money starts flowing and receipts are hidden from your wife. You will sell stuff on eBay, make deals, and maybe even work some extra hours at work. At this point you are terminally infected.

Chapter 4
Is there hope? Nope... Instead you will just find comfort in reading forums with our self proclaimed addicts of the glass. So with every fiber of your being , you sit, read, watch, and at night secretly wander out to the garage and install the parts secretly delivered to you at work on your buggy. It is OK...we understand

Chapter 5
You roll out your dream to the buggy blast. Debut day. All your sacrifices, all those days of eating ramen noodles at work..instead of lunch with friends...has paid off. With shine glamour and gleam the car is now finished. You are now part of the eternal fraternal brotherhood.

Chapter 6
You sit back and watch "new guys" dream of that 1500 buggy that will be built in two weekends. You see them ask about their new "manks" or installing a "Porsche" engine and laugh. Ahh, the young....

Chapter 7
You feel the need to build another buggy...to start the engineering, mental and physical challenge of taking your conceptual dream and creating the tangible. Again, the support from other "brothers" is there.
The new car is now a collection of not only your car, but rather every cool component of every nice car you have seen.

Chapter 8
Haven't got there yet...Let you know in a year or two

All I can stay is thank you all for the encouragement. My name is Michael Murzi and I have been build free for 792 days now. and yes I am an addict.

[Aquabuggy]

My name is Michael Murzi and I have been build free for 792 days now. and yes I am an addict.

HOLY CR@P! 792 days! How did ya last that long? Man I would have fallen off the wagon on day 2

[CoryN]

Oh don't worry about me, I'm not discouraged. I've come home late 3 times this week already from hanging out at the local VW shop.

I'm just going to tinker along on it and see what I end up with.

[Vee Dub Nut]

hahaha.. thats good stuff right there Murz

I'm on buggy number two. The first one was a LOW budget build back in high school using most of the parts from the donor car and any thing else I could swap someone for.

This new one will look quite a bit nicer than the last.. I definitely have spent more money upfront than before, and will throughout the course of the build I'm sure. That being said, I'm still trying to keep the reigns in on this one and not get to carried away. Still I'm sure it will cost me more than I can expect to get out of it...

I added up the receipts from when my grandpa and I built my '67 sedan together and was blown away.. Sure the cost was split between my parents and grandparents and whatever I could earn working after school and weekends.. but sitting at the end looking at all the money spent can be a real eye opener. This is not counting all the stuff I have "re-done" since then

Whats my point? I don't really have one I guess.. Just sharing my experiences. I try not to get too carried away thinking about the money, because in the end its just a number. As long as you are enjoying what your doing, still have money to take care of the important things in life, not getting yourself in ridiculous amounts of debt, then what does it matter how much you spend on a project over the course of its build? Enjoy it.. its just like any other hobby.. its gonna cost you

Gotta pay to play

[jspbtown]

3 examples of 3 very different buggies.

Number 1: Minimal investment (about $2000.00). Used everything.


Number 2: Middle ground buggy. Nothing exciting, but a solid well built buggy with a good combination of new (brakes, suspension, fuel system) and used (motor, tranny, seats). Cost about $4500.00.


Number 3: In my opinion a higher end buggy. Lots of nice details (nice seats, 4 point harnesses, tilt column, nicer motor, new gauges). Some used things like tranny, tires & wheels, engine block. Cost was about $7700.00.


Of course none of them include labor. In my opinion your not gonna feed your family building them. For me its all in the ability to say "yeah....I built it".

[David Head]

Hey Cory, there is only one standard this Club has: Love and Enjoy Dune Buggies. It's up to you to decide how you want to meet that standard. As you can see, we have a panorama of cars with varying styles, appearance, and cost.

Can I have a big AMEN

[Bill K]

Thank goodness, Murzi's Chapter 3 did not lead me to
Chapter 11
But, thanks to Murzi, Linda is at Nordstom's getting even with me

[Joe]

You may wont to look at this site RTS.com

[CoryN]

You may wont to look at this site RTS.com

www.funbodies.com

[blackthree4me]

I agree with the murz
it starts out inocent at first then you think wow that looks pretty good
then you start second guessing yourself and redoing stuff
untill people start to laugh at how long you tinker with that junk in your garage
then finaly the day comes you bring that pile of junk to a show and everyone wants to see whats under the cover.
its all worth while
just remeber that it was built to drive so build it that way.
blackthree4me

a guy that helped start this site many chips ago has a site check it out
http://www.fracdog.netfirms.com/pricelist.htm

[Faron]

I will not start building my buggy for a while, we are going to close on a house at the end of the month. Its not what you spend. It the heart that you spend on your buggy.

As most of you know I sell MINI for a living. When my clients ask for my opinion on their MINI, I simply tell them. MY opinion does not mean a thing when it comes to THEIR car. The only thing that matters is if the car makes them smile when they walk out to go for a cruise. The same can be said of a Dune buggy.

[MURZ]

OK new builders....re read this old post and let me know how close I was on the estimations...... LOL

[BrianB]

OK new builders....re read this old post and let me know how close I was on the estimations...... LOL

Thanks for the wake up call A lot of those things you overlook in the initial stages of estimating. But hey a year or two of entertainment is worth the price of the build,,,,,,priceless

[CoryN]

With just wiring to go, I'm laying at about 1/3 of your original estimate. But there are things I would have done differently now that would affect that price both up and down.

Cory

[CajunBuggy]

Guys,

I had an extremely low budget for my buggy. Here were my expenses:

Donor Bug - $500
Buggy Body & spare tranny - $200
Fiberglass Resin - $200
Dash - $120
Headlights - $45
Other Misc. Lights - $55
Misc Chirco/Cip1 Parts - $145
Wiring Harness - $40
Windshield - $50
Bumpers - $129
Paint - $15 (craigslist)
Clear Coat - $90
Paint Sprayer - $15 (yard sale)
Diamond Plate - $60
Misc Home Depot/Loews - $125
Misc Autozone - $60
Bolts - $170
Tools - $75
Engine Dress-up Stuff - $78
Gas Cap - $55
Fluids Etc.. - $40
Carpet - $18
Rims (front) - $35
Rims (rear) - $45 (yes..great deal)
Tires (front) - $50 (new!)
Tires (rear) - $80 (new!)
Side Pods - $220
Total - $2,715

here is the great part. I sold the following spare parts:

Transmission - $150
Bug Body and spare pan - $200
Spare Tires - $100
Total Sold - $450

The net of it all is that it was only $2,265 for my buggy. Where I saved was using the existing interior (something I would not recommend doing). I also wheeled and dealed on EVERYTHING. I even was able to get Autozone to give me about $200 in parts. I was also able to call about 50 different 'bad neighborhood' tire shops and found one that needed money...hence the low cost of the new tires.

I would completely over budget on bolts and drill bits. I spent $170 in bolts even though I already had over half of what I used on hand.

Thanks,

Matt

[ElijahTurtle]

Wow! Interesting thread. I'm glad I already have a semi-complete buggy to start with. Most of what I need is cosmetic stuff so anything I spend will probaly be on drivetrain & interior. All the rest will just come down to knuckle busting it myself.
If I spent 10K on rebuilding mine, my wife would be out shopping for a new grand piano, car or bigger house.... If not all three

[CoryN]

I didn't include the cost of the new car to the wife before she would let me start on a buggy, or the cost of the pool because the family was bored with me always working on the buggy.

If I knew then what I know now, I could have greatly reduced my costs. I practically gave away all my extras because I didn't have room to keep them and didn't know what they were worth or where to post them. A swing axle transaxle, an IRS transaxle, a linkpin front beam, a ball joint front beam both spindle to spindle, an extra fiberglass body, poly seats, gas tank, 4 wide 5 rims and tires, 4 4 lug chrome wheels and tires and lots of miscellaneous I basically gave away for $100 just to get it out of my garage. Probably an easy thousand right there...

[Jack Duncan]

Whatever you budget for the build, just figure on additional cash for things you didn't expect or misfigured on price. Trust me, it will be more than you think. Keep track of expendatures and you'll see what I mean. I don't mean to throw salt on a wound, but it's just a warning.

[freightshaker]

Well I will admit mine will not be the nicest buggy on the road, BUT it is on the road..... I did cut a few corners "just to get it done" But that's what happens when the other half says "wouldn't it be cool if the buggy was done so we could drive it from the wedding to the reception" BUT she says this 3 months prior to said wedding So I'm doing what I can with what time I have.... But thanks Murzi for putting it in perspective, Had I known when I started what I know now I would have done several things different......But I guess that is for the next buggy

Jerry

[ElijahTurtle]

I think I will take the low road & not keep the receipts or laying down a perspective budget. It's probably better for me to not have a "paper trail" on this project that can be held against me. Otherwise there will never be another future project. I'll stick with the adage that Ignorance is Bliss.

[Jack Duncan]

Now you're talking!

[BrianB]

It shouldnt be too bad for me as I had been "collecting " parts for the Bradley for 3 years. Some of which I can sell and make some cash on and some transfer right over to a buggy build.

[MURZ]

Whatever you budget for the build, just figure on additional cash for things you didn't expect or misfigured on price. Trust me, it will be more than you think. Keep track of expendatures and you'll see what I mean. I don't mean to throw salt on a wound, but it's just a warning.

I hope my list was fairly accurate for a like new buggy. I have struggled with spread sheet after spread sheet and can't see how it can be done for less than 5k. revisit the list and plug in your actual costs for each item....

It adds up....simple things like paint stripper and plain old spray paint, sandpaper, zip ties, wire loom etc, etc can total over 200 bucks....

Heck I think I paid 30 bucks for the 3m velcro for the rear seat carpet..

[Patrick]

I quit adding up after 12k...

[blackthree4me]

this was a pretty good estimate awhile back
I always like this build sheet

http://www.fracdog.netfirms.com/pricelist.htm
Thanks Ronnie
he is into Busses now

[MURZ]

OK, for the guys that just built their buggies.....Was I pretty close at 10K????

[BrianB]

I am probably closer to three K but I did everything on the cheap.Now if you include the time I spent making the body semi decent then I am at 20K of my time.
As a great orator once said "Buy a new body and work from there" You'll be months and dollars ahead in the end. Also, Craigslist is your friend and the VW comunity is always ready to lend a hand

[jspbtown]

About $6500-$7000 (if I recall) for this one:


On my Deserter I have got some real nice stuff (including an expensive windshield) and I am at about $4200 and will need probably another $1000...but other than a real fancy motor its gonna ve VERY nice.

[MURZ]

Hey Cory, add it up NOW.

[CoryN]

I don't want to know. I've added another $5000 just in the last year.

[MURZ]

I don't want to know. I've added another $5000 just in the last year.

Higher education costs..... What you have learned is priceless.

[CoryN]

I truly think a buggy kind of evolves.

I had a running functioning buggy going for $2000-$3000. But then you start hanging with this group. Pretty soon you need new rims and tires. Then the engine isn't big enough. Then someone gets a particular item, and you have to either match or one up it. Before you know it, you have some serious coin invested.

Doesn't matter, the friends I've made in the process are priceless, and what its all about.

[Bill K]

Doesn't matter, the friends I've made in the process are priceless, and what its all about.

Well said, Cory. My sentiments exactly.