Lets talk about future Dune Buggy Registration in Texas

[Faron]

We have the first Texas Dune Buggy Owners meeting scheduled! The topic of conversation will be the upcoming issues with getting a Dune Buggy Legally Registered in the State of Texas. At this point the reservation is set for 20 people in general seating (Separate Checks will be provided.) Please let me know if you plan to join us, and I will change the reservation if needed. If possible we will Facebook Live the meeting (But can’t promise anything at this point.) Notes will be posted as soon as possible. Meeting to be held at the El Mercado, 1702 Lavaca St., Austin Texas 78701, scheduled to start at 1:00PM, Saturday August 12th. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Faron]

Believe it or not the issues that we are facing about LEGALLY Registering a Dune Buggy for the Streets in Texas, are in fact very real. Now that we are only 4 working days from the actual meeting we need A LOT of you to respond to a couple questions. It will only take you a few moments, and it will be huge in making this a productive meeting. We are giving up a lot of time to work on this for everyone who has a Dune Buggy, so please take a moment to respond to our questions. Are you planning to go to the meeting in Austin this Saturday? Do you have a Fiberglass Manx Styled Dune Buggy or a Sandrail? How do you have your Buggy registered now? How do you have your Buggy Insured? Again having a large number of you respond to these questions will help in making the meeting for more productive. Please help! Meeting to be held at the El Mercado, 1702 Lavaca St., Austin Texas 78701, scheduled to start at 1:00PM Saturday August 12th, 2017.

[Heathwerner]

- Unfortunately I will not be at the meeting
- I have a fiberglass Manx style Dune Buggy
- It is registered as a 1967 Volkswagen
- It is actually insured as an off road vehicle

[SergioF]

I have a fiber glass Manx style buggy

It's registered as a 1958 Volkswagen Dune Buggy
When I transferred the title from California, in the "Application For Texas Title", I listed the Make as Volkswagen, and the Model as Dune Buggy.
So my Texas title says 1958 Volkswagen Dune Buggy.

I have it insured as a classic car for street use.

[johber41]

Hey Faron.....long time no talk!

- Unfortunately I will not be at the meeting
- I have a 1961 fiberglass Manx style Dune Buggy
- It is registered as a 1961 Volkswagen with the model being: Convertible. Beetle is not listed on the title. This was with the help of the counter lady at the DMV who saw some of this stuff coming in 2009.
- It is actually insured as a 1961 Beetle, only because the insurance co. used the VIN for the description.

Hope this helps...stole the format from Heath!

John

[Das Li'l Beast]

"Das Lil'l Beast", Bruce Carlile will be attending. I want to thank Bill and Gregg for a lot of valuable input off-line, in order to prepare for Faron Smiths meeting in Austin, this Sat. Besides, I get to have supper with one of my Austin sons. We will report back, and keep things in print (Face Book) to a minimum in order to protect everyones' PRIVACY. As you have already seen, there are a few out spoke folks, many we do not even know, so caution will be exercised. On a final note, the subject does merit some attention, at least to educate ourselves. Wish us well!

[Ken]

As you have already seen, there are a few out spoke folks, many we do not even know, so caution will be exercised.

Sorry, but I for one have no clue what this means... do you care to elaborate, so we can understand what you mean by this?

[foxflier]

Hi All,

I guess the way things have worked out this may be my first and only post on the board. I've been lurking for a couple of months while I built my "not a Manx" intending to debut it here but instead I'm posting to give a head's up. "not a Manx" is on it's way to Florida next week regards of eBay this morning. Yep, I fell pray to Texas Administrative Code Title 43, Part 10, Chapter 217, Subchapter A, Rule 217.3 from which the Assembled Vehicle Manual (AVM) takes it's guidance concerning the prohibition on dune buggies in Texas.

Here's the short story. I purchased the Berrien frame, body, and donor VW mechanicals from another gent in early summer intending to build it out and do a frame change to the donor VW title so the VIN would be correct.
Fast forward to a week ago in the title office. Having my proper VW title I submitted paperwork to change the frame per the AVM. I had an MCO from Berrien with the VIN as well as all the AVM required docs and insurance. As soon as the clerk saw "Buggy" on the MCO she took all the paper to the back then came back asking for weighing, pictures, etc saying they didn't believe that it was a VW because they searched the internet and found Berrien sells dune buggies. So that was it.

Since I had nothing to lose, I called the Texas DMV and started trying to find the law that backs up the AVM. Very nice lady (Ruth) at the DMV did a bunch of research with me on hold and spoke to her supervisor and they ultimately decided what I had should be fine to register so they asked for emailed pics. Then I ultimately received her response via email later in the day:

From: Clark, Ruth <Ruth.Clark@txdmv.gov>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:27 PM
To: Ted
Subject: RE: Berrien Nostalgia Kit Car

My supervisor reached out to our Title Policy and Procedure planner in Austin and received the following response.
“This would be determined by the department to be a dune buggy. Law explicitly states we will not title/register a dune buggy. “

Per Texas Administrative Code Title 43, Part 10, Chapter 217, Subchapter A, Rule 217.3:

(6) Not Eligible for Title. The following are not eligible for a Texas title regardless of the vehicle's previous title and/or registration in this or any other jurisdiction:

(A) vehicles that are missing or are stripped of their motor, frame, or body, to the extent that it materially alters the manufacturer's original design or makes the vehicle unsafe for on-road operation as determined by the department;

(B) vehicles designed or determined by the department to be a dune buggy;

I hope this information helps, if you have any additional questions do not hesitate to call.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Ruth Clark || Customer Service Representative
Longview Regional Service Center

The "not eligible for a Texas title regardless of the vehicle's previous title" is a big one in my opinion. At this point I called it quits and it's on it's way to Florida.

Best of luck everyone. I'd keep'em close. Can't believe even California has more sense on this than Texas!

Regards,

Ted

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[foxflier]

BTW, here's where the name of the buggy comes from....

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[Ken]

Hi Ted. This is a very unfortunate story, to say the least. My rail registration and inspection is up end of September. I'll wait until after the Roundup to see how that goes. My Manx has antique plates and all antique plates registration is up March 2018, so we'll see what happens there soon enough. Thank you for sharing your story.

[foxflier]

Thanks Ken. I'm pretty bummed as are my friends and family. I've received a lot of nice comments on the build and was really looking forward to getting out and about with it and meeting some other owners. I really enjoyed the project.

I wish all of you the best of luck with your buggies!

Ted

[Faron]

I can't tell you how frustrated I am..... but I know all of you are as well. Not only does this keep us from using our Dune Buggies, it also completely diminishes the value of it as well. SUCKS on so many different levels.

I have a copy of a letter sent to a guy that has had his Sandrail on the road for close to 20 years. The letter is from the Manager, of the Title Control Systems Branch in Austin and it basically says that Sand Rails & Dune Buggies are Stripped Down vehicles and considered to be "Non-Titled", for off road use only. They can no longer be legally operated for use on Texas streets or public Roadways. If you email me I will be happy to reply with a copy of the actual letter if you like. faronsmith70@gmail.com

I have already talked to the Manager, of the Title Control Systems Branch. He ran my questions up the ladder, and he said that he would get back to me when he hears back.

You are more than welcome to join the Facebook Site that I set up to help fight this at https://www.facebook.com/groups/SavetheTexasDuneBuggy/

Thanks,
Faron
faronsmith70@gmail.com

[Bill K]

Ted, yours is a sad story. To part with such a nice vehicle had to be very hard.

I still think "Dune Buggy" means a vehicle designed to run on the beach and jump dunes, even by way of having special tires for that activity. I looked up the meaning of "Dune Buggy" in five different dictionaries. And, they all said pretty much the same thing: A vehicle designed especially to be run on the beach with special tires and equipment.

Unfortunately, our cars are carrying the generic name of Dune Buggy, when in reality they are Kit Cars or Assembled Vehicles.

And, the DMV Bureaucrats are locked into that misconception of what a Dune Buggy really is.

[jpbaird]

All,
I received the following email from the President of the national Manx Club this evening and have included my reply as well.

I'm assuming all members of the national club that reside in Texas got the email.

It is encouraging to say the very least but fear we have a long way to go!

I will share further communications as available. Many thanks.

------original email----------
Dear Manx Club member Jeff Baird,

I wanted to personally reach out to you to let you know of a situation currently affecting Dune Buggy owners in the State of Texas. As of April 2017, an update to the TxDMV ASSEMBLED AND REBUILT VEHICLE MANUAL has rendered the Fiberglass Dune Buggy inadmissible to be registered for road use. Many owners have been receiving letters from the TxDMV informing them that their Dune Buggy registration has been revoked and to return their registration tags to the TxDMV.

As a Manx Club member, I wanted to let you know that the Manx Club has been working with fellow Dune Buggy owners in the State of Texas to try to get the situation corrected. Here’s what’s been done so far:
- We’ve contacted Texas House of Representatives that sit on the Transportation Committee to ask for a modification of the documentation that would allow Street Legal Dune Buggies to be registered again.
- We have engaged in a dialog with Ed Thompson, a Texas House of Representatives that serves on the Transportation Committee.
- We’ve emailed SEMA Action Network and asked for a call to discuss their possible involvement on the issue.
- We’ve emailed Historic Vehicle Association (HVA), the organisation responsible for admitting Old Red in the Library of Congress HOF, asking for their support. Their mission is to promote the cultural and historical significance of the automobile and protect the future of our automotive past.
- We’ve started to look for local legal representation.
- A website is in the works to expose the situation and start to raise moneys via a GoFundMe campaign.

The Manx Club takes this matter very seriously. Although we cannot guarantee that our efforts will be successful, we wanted you to know that we have your back. I would like to hear from you to know if you were aware of the situation and have been affected? Would you be interested in participating in the efforts to get the situation resolved?

Yours truly,
Vincent PARISIEN
Manx Club – President

Cell: (514) 770-2004
VParisien@ManxClub.com
www.ManxClub.com
----my response--------
Vincent,
Thanks for your message and very much appreciate the club's efforts. There is a strong buggy hobby culture in Texas and it would be a major loss if that is negatively affected.

To date I have not been affected but the threat hangs over all our heads. I have a '69 Manx and a '68 EMPI Imp and both are clearly street vehicles. Seems the impetus of the action is to prohibit off-road vehicle registration, but the action is far too sweeping. Let me know what is needed and I offer my full support.

In the mean time I will continue to drive and represent the registration that was properly obtained based on TX DMV regulations.

Many thanks.

[Bryan Porter]

I got one and answered to Vincent also they are great buggy people just like our club and will be a big help.

[Bill K]

I too told him how much we appreciate their help.

[Faron]

If you have Facebook you can follow along with what we are doing at https://www.facebook.com/groups/SavetheTexasDuneBuggy/

Or you are welcome to join the Facebook page that is for chatting about all Dune Buggy related FUN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/TexasDuneBuggyOwners/